Do you agree with my answer in this post?

Why is it that most people don't understand that negative reinforcement doesn't always mean hitting your dog?





It can mean teaching your dog that if he doesn't pay attention to you, he will get a pop on the collar with a choke chain.





It doesn't hurt your dog, it just redirects his mind. it's the equivalent me tapping a person on the shoulder to get their attention.





Here is the post:





http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

Do you agree with my answer in this post?
YUP!





answer my question?





http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...
Reply:Yes, I do agree with you. I do not agree with physical punishment (hitting the dog). Anger begets anger.
Reply:That's a good point.


Without going to your link tho I think most people think negative re-inforcement just naturally equals abusive treatment to the dog.
Reply:I'm a balanced trainer. This means that I train using positive methods until the dog understands the behavior. I then use negative reinforcement to remind him that I know that he can do the behavior and he MUST do the behavior whether I have a cookie in my hand or not. These are life issues. I don't want my dogs to think that they have a CHOICE to not come to me when I call them as that can get them dead. I use the NILIF program in my training classes and with clients. When I'm in the park training my dogs, I have an audience. People wish that their dog will behave that good. Some will tell me how nasty I am because I told the dog "NO". When I ask them if they have a dog, they reply that their dog is at home because they can't make him behave in public. Sorry cookies are a good way to start dogs and pups in training but to have a well trained dog there needs to be some consequences for not doing the behavior besides withholding the treat. I read your answer and it is similar to one that I would give. Some people have no idea...
Reply:One of the reasons that I have never liked the terms positive and negative reinforcement. The terms simply paint an improper mental image, and in no way describe the actions of positive and negative reinforcement. There are four courses of action, not just two.


There is an art to understanding when each of the four would be the proper course of action, and quite honestly very few will master that art. That is why we see so many using one or the other but not all.


If you participate in one of the dog sports that requires intense upper level training, you will quickly learn that there are a few that win time after time regardless of what dog they have. There is a simple explanation for this, they can READ their dog better than the rest of us can, so are able to use all four effectively.
Reply:Sorry, but I think you misunderstand the concept of negative reinforcement, and are mistaking it for punishment. Reinforcement is the process whereby a behavior is strengthened. Punishment is the process whereby a behavior is suppressed or weakened. Positive refers to something being added to the situation, and negative to something being taken away. Positive reinforcement is where something good is added to the situation, such as a treat. Negative reinforcement is where something unpleasant is removed from the situation, such as if the dog is forging on lead, the pressure on its neck is supposedly unpleasant. When it gets back into position, the pressure goes away, and reinforces walking at heel.





Positive punishment is when something unpleasant happens as a result of the behavior. So when you pop the dog on the nose, that is a positive punishment, as is a yank on the chain. Negative punishment is the removal of something good, such as turning your back on the dog when it jumps up on you.





To reiterate:


Reinforcement, by definition, ALWAYS strengthens a behavior. Positive by something rewarding being delivered, negative by something aversive being removed.





Punishment, by definition, ALWAYS reduces or inhibits a behavior. Positive punishment by something aversive being delivered, negative by something rewarding being removed.





The effect of a supposed reinforcer or punisher always has to be judged in terms of its effect on the behavior, not in terms of what you think it should be doing. If the behavior is not increasing, it's not being reinforced. If it's not stopping, it's not being punished, or at best, non-reinforced.





The concept of negative reinforcement is typically confused with punishment, but they are entirely different things.





Edit: These are sometimes referred to as R+, R-, P+ and P-. Each has its role in training.
Reply:nice ,very nice, too gooood,exellent, mind blowing (do not think neg..)
Reply:yes that is a really good answer.